Exploring the Debt Collection Industry

September 28, 2007

Exploring the Debt Collection Industry

Filed under: Arbitration Justice — budhibbs @ 8:41 am

 Exploring the Debt Collection Industry



  1. I had a credit card and they sold it to weber and olcese. I got a letter and called. I left tons of messages and finally got thru to a collector who did not know what she was talking about, I asked to speak to the manager and was transfered to ms, porter. she said that weber olcese bought the debt and that they were going to get a judgement and garnish my wages and bank accounts and taxes unless i paid it off. when i tried to explain the situation she said that she was new and there was noting i could do. i asked to speak to her manager and she said that she was the highest in the company. i hung up and called back and asked to speak with her manager and was told that it was the attorneys and was transfered to a assistant. i hung up again and asked to speak with a manger other than ms porter and was transfered to someone nameed lynn. she tried to help and transfered me to another collector who set up arrangements with me becuase lynn talked to her first. this collector told me that the debt was not bought. all i have to say is that weber and oclese is a joke and so is the staff, they lie and are unhelpful. when i called back to make a payment i was on hold forever and again left messges, finally i called and asked for lynn and was transfered to a different lynn, and she told me that the lynn i was talking about has no authority to set up anything. i hung up and called again and asked the receptionsist (who sounds like she is dying or really hates her job) what lynns worked ther and was told a collector named lynn and a manager named lynn. I finally got through to the original lynn that i was talking to and she took my payment. talk about getting the run around and no one nowing what is going on. then i called back becuase i did not see the payment come out of my account, i paid with a check by pjone and low and behold got transfered to ms porter i told her i gave my payment to lynn the manager and it did not clear my account she told me to hold and herd her say that once again “she is putting her nose where it doesn’t belong” and came back to the phoen. i asked her what she was talking about and she said that if it is collecotions i can only speak with her. then i called back and asked for lynn the manager and she said that they do not actually debit the accounts immediatly and that she sent a letter to me regarding some electoric withdraw and that the money would be taken out within 3 to 5 days. sure enough the payment came out. then within days i was getting messages from a machine and a collector and did so for 2 days in a row. i am considering getting a attorney becuase this to me is wrong and has to violate some laws or harrassment or somehting – can anyone give advice?

    Comment by Joe — October 4, 2007 @ 10:04 pm

  2. I’m sick of JDB’s when can I hold my OC to THEIR contract? I hear how we can legally be held to our end…but NO WHERE in any of my original contracts did it state my original creditor could sell off my debt to Tom who can collect for awhile and then sell it to Dick, who can collect for a while and then sells it off to Harry who says sorry have no knowledge of you paying Tom or Dick through CCCS so you have to start ALL over again….Can’t we go back and demand our original OC’s (who’ve charged us off) to legally allow us to repay our debts fairly?

    Comment by Kathie Wasick — October 11, 2007 @ 9:49 am

  3. There needs to be some serious legal reform regarding the FDCPA and possibly the induction of additional legislation for accountability. This current system has many flaws and is slowly bleeding our country dry from the middle class down.

    Comment by Shawn — November 6, 2007 @ 1:09 pm

  4. I have been a bill collector for the past 8 years. I just read Mr Hibbs’ assessment of collectors, or “money beggars” as he refers to us. I must not understand the term “money beggars”, because it seems to me that would apply to someone who accepts a credit card in the first place. Aren’t they asking for money they don’t have? First let me say, some of what Mr Hibbs says is true but is only true to a minority of collectors. I have never been to jail, have a steady job history, I do sometime show signs of less than average self-esteem, I dont use the phone to empower myself, and I pay my bills the best I can. Mr Hibbs’ guess that 2 out of 10 collectors are honest, is just that: a guess. He refers to high turnover rates and states he has dealt with thousands of collectors. Sorry Mr Hibbs but if you have dealt with thousands, that is a very small percentage. I know you wouldn’t judge a group of people based on the small percentage of which you have had dealings. I believe that is the definition of predjudice, and that is a sign of ignorance. In my 8+ years of collections, I have never cursed a consumer, yet I have been cursed at the very least 1000 times. These rants by consumers have included certains acts to myself, my mother, grandmother and my kids. I have never threatened a consumer with violence 1 time. Yet, me and my family have been threatened at least 500-1000 times. But the point of my post isn’t to name call or argue with someone, who obviously hate a lot of hate inside.

    Mr Hibbs’ assessment of collections is a very simple minded one. The real problem with the situation stems from the American fiat money system. The more debt a bank can put out, the more money they make and the better the economy looks. I would say the American lower and middle class all suffer from self esteem issues. Most people watch a lot of TV, and after being bombarded with images of rich people doing everything and having fun, how can we not feel inferior. Then along comes a credit card offer and people jump on it because it gives them a feeling “moving up.” Look at Chase Bank. They actually have a credit card call Chase FREEDOM. Freedom? Debt is somehow being associated with freedom. Platinum, Gold, Preferred … etc. Alot of people take a credit card and know it’s beyond their means, but they will worry about it later. We’re all debt slaves. The problem isn’t the debt collectors, because when someone takes a line of credit, they open the door for this possibility. The real problem is the American banking system, government entities, and the media. I agree 100% with Mr Hibbs that no one should be treated as scum, but that also includes the collectors, too. Mr Hibbs what you have done in this article is the same thing that you are accusing collectors of doing. In the future use the other 1/2 of you brain and try to see the whole situation, not just what it looks like on the surface. Thank you.

    Comment by Dale — November 30, 2007 @ 3:51 pm

  5. Minority, huh? This last comment by Dale is quite disturbing. I am a higher up at a local CCCS and I work with many different collection agencies. I would say that the majority of collectors I speak with are so full of crap, and have, will be and currently break the law by lying through their teeth. Their intent is to mislead at any cost, even at the risk of lying about the original creditors, mostly the big banks. They will stop at nothing to misrepresent themselves and their clients (B of A, Chase, etc..) that it amazes me. Simply put, when you mislead someone or use false and misleading statements to get some poor unsuspecting soul to give you money, that is called misrepresentation. Misrepresentation is, “A TYPE OF FRAUD”. So it is safe to say, through logic, Debt Collectors are nothing but, “ABJECT FRAUDS”. Im not sure why they havent been drummed out of the industry. Oh wait, I know why! Because the Big Banks know very well that the tactics used by the Collection Agencies are illegal, that is why the Big Banks dont commit the frauds that the Collection Agencies do. If they did, they would hundreds of thousands of lawsuits against them. That is why the Big Banks depend on the lawless companies that collect the debts. Beleive me folks when I tell you, Banks wont purposefully break the law if they can help it but there position is, “well if we cant break the law to get money, lets get someone else to do it.

    In conclusion, Banks are just as guilty as the colletions agencies. The banks know very well that collectors are slippery, lawless pirhana’s,

    Q: So why do the banks continue to do business with them?
    A: Because birds of a feather flock together.

    Their lies are a stench in the nostrils of honest men.

    Thank you for your time

    Comment by Jon — December 12, 2007 @ 10:37 am

  6. I am so upset I can’t even breathe. I received a SECOND NAF arbitration notice forwarded to me without ever receiving a first one and if I need to respond I will have to use overnite mail as according to the second letter response is due Monday the 17th!!(which I don’t even have enough money to pay for without borrowing!) Arrow financial services vs. me. First off, should I even respond since after some research I understand that rule of procedure requires that both parties agree to arbitration. I never did agree to this with arrow, in fact never heard of them accept i know they are a sleazy collector. what happens if i do nothing in writing? they are requiring a written response(naf)? Help please fast! I doubt that they have any relevant info to properly warrant a judgment against me but will I have another chance to fight? I never accept mail from people I don’t know because I have been chased by a stalker since college and he would find me thru many channels including posing as “official business”. Please help!!!

    Comment by d — December 14, 2007 @ 2:06 pm

  7. Jon I agree with some of what you say also. Seems as though we share a similar view of the banking system. However, just because you say collectors lie and misrepresent doesn’t mean that it is true. You make that statement and provide no evidence or even and example. Anyone can say anything. That doesn’t make it true. I’m not calling you a liar, only you know your experiences. I just like to understand the basis of accusations.

    Speaking of pirhana’s, let’s look at what CCCS does. Your whole business is to make money off people who cant afford the bills they already have. Then your solution is to add one more bill to their load: CCCS. This is done under the guise of “Non-Profit.” Most people I talk to, who are with a CCCS type company, have the impression they just tell their creditors they are with CCCS and that’s it. The real story is after you guys pitch these “poor unsuspecting” souls telling them all these things you are going to do for them, you then send out a proposal ASKING if the companies will work with you. Companies then have the right to accept or decline the offer. Most consumers I speak with seem to think collection agencies have to work with CCCS. Where does this mindset come from? Were they mislead? Misleading is fraud according to you. Jon you probably aren’t guilty of this, because you seem like a genuine person who is trying to provide a good service, but you know CCCS is guilty of misrepresentation, too.

    Edit out rude obnoxious comments

    Comment by Dale — December 14, 2007 @ 3:28 pm

  8. d, #6, if you haven’t yet read all the links on here about arbitration, you should. Also head over the Help, Advice section (links up top to the right) where your questions may be seen by more people who can help. Just as a quick note, I’ve seen this thing with the NAF not getting notices to people before, or getting them to you so late you can’t possibly respond by their “deadline”. If I were in your shoes I would immediately file complaints with the FTC and the AG of your state and MN, where the NAF is headquartered. Search the Help, Advice section and the posts in the Arbitration Justice area for info on refusing arbitration and on how to use your state law to oppose confirmation of any award the NAF may issue. Post in the Help area if you need more info.

    Comment by impishredhead — December 16, 2007 @ 9:10 pm

  9. I get the feeling that a lot of this debt is being created by companies that are looking to boost their bottom lines in anticipation of mergers or large scale business opportunities. I have seen many mentions of Bell South and Bank of America. BoA purchased MBNA recently, and picked up the older, supposedly unpaid credit cards as well. Instead of going through and trying to settle these themselves, they sold off the debt for pennies, then wrote it off at the actual amounts for a huge windfall in tax reductions. Nice game. So anyway, yes the debt collectors are a pain and obnoxious, but we should keep in mind that the companies who gained most are those blue chips out there. So they look good while letting someone else look sleazy for sticking it to the consumers, who the blue chips are scared to death of alienating.

    Comment by Gregg — December 31, 2007 @ 1:42 pm

  10. I wonder why 3 previous posts were deleted? Could it be because they were showing how obnoxious and juvenile some people act toward collectors?

    Editor – Dale, you are being obnoxious and juvenile. Cut it out. Or go whine somewhere else. It won’t be tolerated here.

    Comment by Dale — December 31, 2007 @ 4:00 pm

  11. ~snip~

    Dale, there’s a whole category on here set up especially for collectors to post in. Go post over there. Or keep wasting your time here, and I’ll keep deleting it. Either way 😉

    Comment by Dale — January 8, 2008 @ 3:43 pm

  12. I found this site to be very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to post some helpful information. I look forward to you posting in the future. Thank you again.

    Comment by Troy — January 27, 2008 @ 3:35 am

  13. I am been getting several lovely phone calls from Wolpoff & company since November. I really do not know why? I called there number they want to speak only to the husband for info I do the bills. since bankruptcy ’02 we live cash only. The phones will not stop also they did not take lawyers name down. So what are they up to?

    Comment by Athene — February 7, 2008 @ 12:24 am

  14. Athene, either have the lawyer write them or you send W&A a letter informing them that you dispute owing any debt whatsoever. Demand validation of any debt they allege is owed. And tell them to communicate only in writing because the phone calls are inconvenient. Do not answer the phone for them ever again. Read the Help, Advice section here for more info.

    Comment by impishredhead — February 8, 2008 @ 11:20 am

  15. It is important to understand the laws related to debt collection. Most debt collectors are violating your rights.

    Comment by Tim Reynolds — February 14, 2008 @ 9:27 am

  16. It would seem Midland Credit Management AKA Midland Funding LLC has picked a new territory to pick on. I live in Kingman, Arizona, have been served with a summons along with a few other folks in the area. No one got prior notice of thirty days ahead of the intent to sue. Their lawyers, Jerold Kaplan Law office must be following Midlands way of doing business. I have been doing some of my own research on Midland and find that at best they are a corrupt and nasty outfit. They pull up your credit reports like you are asking them to loan you money. If they find anything negative on your report, they make like the original debtor sold that negative debt to them. They then put themselves on your report, upping the amount you owe, and keep updating it so it can never die. They never contact you about the debt as required by law thirty days in advance of any legal action being taken.The only way you even know about this company is getting a summons from a local court saying they are suing you. I’m like most, never got the free credit report anually that you are entitled to. But it is on my to do list now for the beginning of each year. I’m not a lawyer but have found out you can lock down your credit reports for a fee to the agencies. This will stop people like Midland or banks offering you credit cards that are [NOT] preapproved from just randomly checking you out.

    Bud, keep up the good work. I have learned a lot from your site.

    Dave L.

    Comment by Dave L — March 5, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

  17. Debt Collectors push a consumer to kill herself. (Caught on Tape): Collectors killing people

    Comment by Anthony Lemons — April 13, 2008 @ 12:11 am

  18. My only income from all sources is veterans disability.Is this exempt from creditors?What can I do to protect my bank acct from collectors taking out all my money from a judgement?

    Comment by steve — April 29, 2008 @ 2:43 pm

  19. if i paid the o.c. does the c.a. have to remove there listing on my credit report

    Comment by james — May 5, 2008 @ 4:48 pm

  20. Unfortunately it is true that collectors break the law every day in a quest to collect more money for their clients. I was and still am surprised to see so many negative comments here, but possibly that is because the people who are treated fairly by debt collectors don’t leave comments. Many people who deal with collectors know they owe the money and if they get a “good” collector try to work it out but not always. In my years of collecting I have been screamed at, swore at, threatened and harrassed, all the while following the FDCPA and knowing the debtor is only acting that way because of frustration and sometimes the inability to pay their debt.
    A bill collector doesn’t pull names out of a hat, they are hired by a creditor to collect money that is due the creditor. The person who owes the money incurred the debt and now has to pay the piper.
    I have been in this industry for 20 years and have seen the good the bad and the ugly. As I continue to work in this industry I keep trying to help the industry but as we all know there will always be those few who continue to break the law.

    Comment by Michelle Dunn — June 7, 2008 @ 6:16 am

  21. Michelle, even coming from a consumer advocate perspective, and after having dealt with more debt collectors who violated BADLY than not, I can somewhat sympathize with your position. I’ve known collectors who behaved respectfully and followed the law. Unfortunately they suffer the effects of the bad ones, much as used car salespeople all get lumped into the same SCUMBAG category because of the SCUMBAG behavior of some of them. And then you have stuff like this going on: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/06/tonomusic.shtm – that sure doesn’t help your industry either.

    When talking to consumers who’ve been on the receiving end of abusive collection tactics, you’re not likely to convince anyone that we should all just forgive “the industry” for the transgressions of the jerks. If, on the other hand, we were to see “good collectors” going after “bad collectors” with more fury (and more effectiveness) than consumers do, that might get us to sit up and pay attention.

    I’ve always wondered when collectors are going to figure this out: the way to improve public perception of debt collectors is for debt collectors to take the lead in enforcing compliance and more intelligent interaction with consumers. For example, instead of laying the blame on “the few” collectors who cause problems while assuring us that “most” follow the law, why don’t you find a way for collectors to demand and enforce compliance from “the few” who are ruining it for everyone? And, instead of complaining about consumers who abuse debt collectors (sure way to further antagonize already pissed off consumers, even if it’s often true!) try using some higher level people management skills to acknowledge the reasons WHY consumers may act that way – with an eye towards solving the problem?

    You bet I swore at and lashed out at collectors, but you know what? That was after being sworn at, harassed, and told to take my kid and do a Thelma & Louise over the edge of the Grand Canyon so that “at least we can try to collect from your life insurance, you worthless piece of ****.” Not to mention sprees of re-dials from laughing/screaming/cursing collectors – both at work and at home. What they ever thought that would accomplish besides getting the phone slammed in their ears, I will never know. And then if a different collector called who wanted to try to be reasonable – FORGET IT!!! Once “debt collector” gets associated with that kind of experience in someone’s mind, you don’t get another chance to “do it right” even if you had nothing to do with the other idiot.

    From a consumer’s point of view, that’s what I think you’re facing and what I’d suggest trying to address.

    Comment by impishredhead — June 9, 2008 @ 12:55 pm

  22. There are a lot of sides to this, and I’m going to show another side entirely. No one ever points at the real industry that has caused the major fall of the economy and leaving families in the poor house. It is the credit lendings agencies and banks themselves. Banks and lenders make money hand over fist – to the point of middle management salaries at $150,000+ annually! Lenders charge ridiculous fees and interest. How rich do the people at the top of the lending heap need to be? If it wasn’t for rules and fees they can make up themselves at any time, how many people would even have a collector calling them? Now, more from the other side. The same businesses that pushed people further into debt, write off the debt and then hire companies (aka collection agencies) to get the debt back as profit! Talk about eating from both sides of your mouth. So, the lenders and banks put enormous pressure on the collection agencies to get the money back. I personally saw a situation where a collection agency was collecting money for one of the largest banks. This bank told the collection agency that they would not give them any business unless they provided a call recording solution that recorded all of their calls. The base recording solution that would be put in place to satisfy the bank (client), would cost the collection agency 2 million $$$. At the same time the bank told them to put in the recording technology, they also told the collection agency that they were cutting their commission rate by 5%. So, cut their payment by 5%, and ask them to spend 2 million dollars. I’m not saying that it’s right for debt collectors to break the law and be jerks. I’m just saying it’s time to think about the root of the problem. Those ‘roots’ don’t care about how you are treated if you owe money…they just want as much money as they can get back. Or how about another case regarding one of the major credit card issuers. This large corporation told a collection agency that they would only do business with them if they had agents offshore (e.g India). This was based on the assumption that India labor was cheaper, so they could get more of the profits back and pay a low commission. So, write off the debt, get the debt back as profit, and don’t even create the jobs and keep the economy in the US – where the debt is. So, what’s the real ‘press’ then?

    Comment by Leona — June 30, 2008 @ 2:39 pm

  23. I was wondering. If anyone can buy my debt over and over, can I buy it? Would it work if I sued myself for the debt owed and got a judgement on myself? How many judgements can you have on one debt? I would think, first one gets it. Then I can garnish my own wages until the debt is paid and get it taken off my credit report. I think it’s brilliant. What do you think?

    Comment by Mary — October 20, 2008 @ 10:40 pm

  24. I know of a few people who’ve purchased their own accounts from JDBs. But you don’t have to sue yourself, silly. You purchase with the stipulation that the JDB either never reports or immediately removes from the reports. Then YOU never report the stupid thing on yourself. The End.

    Comment by impishredhead — October 21, 2008 @ 11:02 am

  25. i would like to find a place to go here where i can check to see if these collection agencies are liceansed in my state of neb,to collect all help will be appreciated greatly,after all if we have to go by the rules,so should they

    Comment by woody — November 6, 2008 @ 10:29 am

  26. Woody, go here http://www.sos.state.ne.us/licensing/collection/index.html and look at the link for Licensed Collection Agencies.

    Comment by impishredhead — November 10, 2008 @ 11:29 am

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